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Thomas Lecaque
Oh for fuck's sake. All right, ye olde wee little Islamaphobes, let's try this again, shall we? The Crusades Were a Bad Idea, Take 2, 280-character edition:
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
1. The First Crusade is called, somewhat nebulously, in 1095, with a message that we will never properly recover--so first and foremost, trying to claim you know what the cause was is ludicrous. We have a number of sources for it. Try actual history!
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
At BEST, at very best, you could try the argument that the First Crusade was called to help out the Byzantine Greeks in their struggles against the Seljuk Turks (not the Great Seljuks, mind you, who had their own empire across the Middle East, but the Turcoman branches that had
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
invaded/been invited in to modern Turkey and had taken over Byzantine cities during the Byzantine civil war, where they were invited to garrison them so the Byzantines can kill each other... you know, civilized-like.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
More probably, you can make the argument that the First Crusade is a large-scale armed pilgrimage to the Holy Land with a distinct side of religious conquest thrown in--conquest, not defense, with the explicit goal of taking Jerusalem.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
Now yes yes, Jerusalem used to be Christian! Oh my god, the Muslims conquered it! What a horror show... grow up. Jerusalem was taken by the Caliph Umar in April 637, as part of the surrender agreement with the Patriarch Sophronius, and was followed up with the...
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
...Umariyya Covenant, which guaranteed civil and religious liberty to Christians in exchange for the jizya. Heard of the jizya, InfoWars viewers? OF COURSE NOT. Because Alex Jones is a screaming sweat stain with a faint relationship to reality.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
The jizya was a yearly tax on certain non-Muslim populations known as dhimmis, the "People of the Book"--Christians and Jews--who were allowed to live, work, and worship freely in the Islamicate as long as they paid their taxes. That's it. Otherwise, they were fine.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
Now, I know this is not going to impress the altright given who they are, but this is also the first time in 500ish years that Jews are allowed to come back to Jerusalem, since the end of the Bar Kokhba rebellion and the leveling of the city. It's also a period that's a heck of
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
a lot safer for non-Chalcedonian Christians, who were persecuted by the Orthodox Byzantine Emperors... which is why they open the gates in Egypt to the Islamic armies. Now, I've followed the nutbag little timelines provided in the original thread. Cute.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
Y'all are super bent out of shape about the invasion of Spain, right? Guys, the Visigothic kingdom, at the time of the Arab invasion of the peninsula? It's a:
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
The last Visigothic king, Roderic, took power in a coup, usurping the throne by force according to the Chronicle of 754. Consequently, the Muslims walk into a civil war. In 712, his troops deserted him mid-battle and he was killed, betrayed by his nobles who themselves died.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
Then the Muslims take over. No invasion is warm and fuzzy, but you're going to give people shit about Islamic Spain? Guys, this is THE place in Europe. Cordoba is a wonder to behold, filled with libraries, mosques, churches, beautiful buildings, open scholarly access, the works.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
They raid north-western Spain, discover it's too cold and wet and leave it alone; they raid up to the Loire River, where their raiding party is turned back by Charles Martel (IT'S A SKIRMISH), then go back to the Mediterranean.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
And for a couple of centuries, that's the status quo. Sure, there are Arab pirates throughout the Mediterranean, and they sack cities all over the place...
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
But guys. GUYS. YOU WORSHIP AT THE ALTAR OF PSEUDO-HISTORICAL VIKINGS. You're going to give MUSLIMS shit for destroying thing from the sea in the Middle Ages? Are you... are you really that stupid and ignorant?
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
Narrator voice: They really were.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
I'm not even going to touch the Vikings right now except to say how stupidly laughable your position is. But as for pilgrimage routes and access to Jerusalem... it's not like anyone was stopping them. People went to Jerusalem. It was fine.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
In the tenth and eleventh centuries, with the Magyars settling into the Kingdom of Hungary, the Byzantine Empire doing great under the Macedonian Dynasty, and the coming to of an arrangement between the Fatimids and Byzantines, you could go on pilgrimage by land.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
And people did, in large numbers. Through the 1060s, and even after--when it starts getting dangerous, it's not because of a deliberate Islamicate policy, or some kind of insane religious desire to kill off their co-religionists (have any of you read the Qur'an?), it's banditry.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
The rise and then fragmentation of the Seljuk Empire destabilizes the region, splitting it into competing city-states and war bands. It makes land travel extremely difficult for everybody in the region. Add into that Byzantine civil wars... it's not great.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
So you can't really give me a bullshit "Retake Jerusalem" because it's a good 450+ years, and it had been Byzantine, not Frankish. You can't give me a "Turks going to invade Europe otherwise" because that's fucking nuts. It's not a defensive war. Period. Full stop.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
En route to the First Crusade, numerous contingents engage in pogroms against Jewish populations, especially in the Rhineland; they attack the Orthodox Byzantines repeatedly; they sack a number of cities and indiscriminately kill Muslims and Eastern Christians.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
Then they settle in, learn some things, build some alliances, adopt customs, art, architecture, food, dress, etc., learn some Arabic, translate some texts, rediscover Greco-Roman science, technology etc. with improvements from the Muslims...
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
No one is sitting around singing kumbaya in the Middle Ages, but your portrayal of crusading is such a load of bullshit. On so many levels. This isn't even starting with the Albigensian Crusades, Northern Crusades, 4th Crusade, etc.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
...shit, let's just mention the Second Crusade to get some flavor for how it is both more complex and distinctly not about defending Europe all of this is, shall we? We shall.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
So, the crusader County of Edessa, up in northern Mesopotamia, is the farthest flung and weakest of the crusader states--large Armenian population, but few major cities, large size, hard to defend.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
The rise of Imad ad-Din Zengi and his attempts to consolidate power in Syria-Mesopotamia led to alliance between the Crusader states and independent Muslim cities. For example, Jerusalem and Damascus, or Edessa and Diyarbakir, to fight off Zengi.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
Edessa and Diyarbakir screw up--they attack Aleppo, and Zengi decides to take Edessa while they're besieging his well fortified city... and he does so. Edessa falls, the county collapses, and panic ensues in the West.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
The Second Crusade is called in 1145 expressly to defend the Holy Land from Zengi. Not Europe, but the Crusader States. Those are different geographic locations. The king of France and the Holy Roman Emperor lead full armies out.
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Thomas Lecaque 14 Nov 17
Replying to @tlecaque
But it's a real problem, because by the time they get there... the Crusader States have signed a peace treaty with Zengi and don't want to break it. But the Latins want to attack someone... so they attack Damascus, Jerusalem's staunch ally. Because they're idiots.
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