Twitter | Search | |
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧)
solarpunk nomad debugging the global economy ‎‍👷: and 🌱: ♥ : javascript, veganism, yoga, climbing 🏳️‍🌈⚧️: (he/him)
10,572
Tweets
1,993
Following
874
Followers
Tweets
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 50s
Replying to @wmhilton @DimaYv @swyx
...i see, so the entire page becomes unresponsive for the duration it takes to load the module, but with import ... it also would hmm `await` it and you can only proceed once you have it later: loading it from cache is unnoticeably fast, so it doesnt make a difference anyway?
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 5m
and i started to wonder what are the theoretical upsides that make ESM worth it. a JS module mechanism that is independent of the environment makes sense, but `require` existed already. so what is/was the problem that makes import/export necessary? any pointers?
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 6m
yes. some do - maybe they get paid or it's their hobby? i tried to switch 3 times so far, but every time had to conclude, that evenwithout CJS dependencies in the project it is still more hassle than sticking to CJS :/ because: 1. lack of import maps support 2. no live reload
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 11m
Replying to @wmhilton @DimaYv @swyx
so i can't define a named function at the bottom of my ES module file and use it in the first line? no hoisting? not sure i get what you are saying. so script tag loading is as fast as import?
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 17m
Replying to @wmhilton @swyx and 2 others
yeah maybe. i feel the way that should work is twitter should not show them my tweets but no the other way around, because i can anyway still see it incognito and it kinda destroys the conversation flow
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 18m
Replying to @wmhilton @DimaYv @swyx
fair point :-) i can see that. it's very theoretical, but i can see some benefit here. still, they made async/await work? why not just roll with `require` ...that would solve that use case too ... so there has to be more to it than that
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 20m
Replying to @wmhilton @DimaYv @swyx
sounds interesting. never noticed performance differences i have to say. did you measure? what is it that makes it theoretically (and hopefully practically) faster?
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 21m
Replying to @DimaYv @swyx
does the ecosystem migrate? do you have numbers on that? sounds interesting. haven't seen that happening yet, even though i personally tried a few times, but it was just a lot of pain and hassle and bloated my setup way more and didnt make things simpler so far
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 23m
Replying to @DimaYv @wmhilton @swyx
it seems for sandboxing, i can use maybe wasm? maybe iframes? maybe web workers? maybe a module to tokenize js source and evaluate it virtually? ...maybe i can soon also use realms? :-) so what is/was missing from CJS? ...was hoping for it to allow for "no tooling"
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 28m
Replying to @wmhilton @swyx and 2 others
oh - twitters experience is great. had to open in incognito to read what that was a reply to. it only said: "This account owner limits who can view their Tweets."
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 30m
Replying to @DimaYv @swyx
all i need => all the modules so then you can sync require them ... or import them too maybe not sure about pros/cons, only that given most code is CJS, it might be more effort using ESM
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 32m
Replying to @wmhilton @DimaYv @swyx
great ... so realms can be used instead of e.g. document.append(script) or eval(...) ? ...so why ESM again?
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 32m
Replying to @DimaYv @swyx
2. all i would want is live reload with no tooling required (e.g. if an "import map" exists, web servers can support it or have browsers poll the servers for changed modules to live reload) ...and expose a mechanism for an app to act on that. so i don't need special tooling
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 33m
Replying to @DimaYv @swyx
1. i personally like cache. i also think in a far future with educated users and proper UI's, ...cache is what people want to be in control of too.
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 36m
Replying to @wmhilton @DimaYv @swyx
i definitely want sandboxing. are you saying sandboxing and module system should be the same feature? you don't want sandboxes without modules? you dont wand modules without sandboxing? are modules sandboxes and sandboxes are modules?
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 46m
Replying to @kentbye @rektide and 2 others
yes i know - the "good parts" vs. "bad parts" is always true. so that is why being an "official" standard by a self proclaimed standards body is not making something a "good part" - which is why i'm a bit upset, because that was more or less only argument :-(
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 48m
Replying to @wmhilton @DimaYv @swyx
also - if you need sandboxing ... tooling can make use of 1. web workers 2. iframes 3. maybe some wasm blobs? ...so what exactly is the selling point of ESM? ..what's the reasoning behind it?
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 49m
Replying to @wmhilton @DimaYv @swyx
if i need build tools, i can use whatever ... i can use typescript or design my own module system and translate it on-the-fly to arbitrary output. i can hack in extra fancy features, because the tooling translates it. what's the point if you need tooling?
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 50m
Replying to @wmhilton @DimaYv @swyx
really? which tools? ...and isn't one of the selling points to make tools unnecessary? ...a bit ridiculous, no?
Reply Retweet Like
𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱 【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧) 53m
Replying to @wmhilton @DimaYv @swyx
i know. ...isn't it irony? i just skip judging ESM for now and wait a bit longer, but it's not looking good i have to say :/
Reply Retweet Like