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Matt Mullenweg
Great read, the Gutenberg Complexity Fallacy, counting clicks and keystrokes where got something wrong:
A common trend in complaints about the new editor is that the equivalent process in the classic editor was faster and required fewer steps. I think in most cases this isn't true.Continue ReadingThe...
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John Blackbourn 🇪🇺 Nov 2
Replying to @photomatt @wptavern
An end user of Gutenberg pointed out perceived complexity in the content management process and you tell them they're doing it wrong? Give me strength, Matt. Maybe the lack of discoverability of the easier workflow is what's wrong.
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ʝ³ - Sugar for Xmas 🍭 Nov 2
Agree with John. There’s kinda so much wrong, and there’s so much “everything is fine” about folks‘ responses, that it’s ruining lots of other ancillary stuff. Folks that can’t see it, are trying not to, which isn’t constructive or healthy. It’s dismissive, and arrogant.
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William Earnhardt Nov 2
Replying to @JJJ @johnbillion and 2 others
I didn’t intend it that way. Maybe I didn’t articulate well. My belief is that there is a learning period with any new interface. Once familiar with them complexity and efficiency boils down to actual steps and things like click counts, mouse travel distance, keystrokes, etc.
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Christian Denat Nov 2
Replying to @photomatt @wptavern
so for you, the UI complexity can be measured in number of clicks. Wow !!! IMO both posts are wrong. in their approach... But you prefer close the eyes and choose what it seems good for your bizz not for the WP community. It's a choice...not sure it will be the best.
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Andrey Savchenko Nov 3
Replying to @earnjam @JJJ and 3 others
learning is a factor but isn’t a replacement for ease of use. also while hardcore users can benefit from learning, casual ones don’t nearly as much. “you hadn’t learned it well enough” is a poor deflection when people keep telling “this isn’t designed well enough for my needs”.
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William Earnhardt Nov 3
Replying to @Rarst @JJJ and 3 others
True about users who don't use enough to develop familiarity. But how do you design something that pleases everyone? What's an example of a powerful interface that all users are fully comfortable with upon 1st interaction. FWIW, there are parts of Gutenberg I really don't like
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John Blackbourn 🇪🇺 Nov 3
Replying to @earnjam @Rarst and 3 others
Your article is solid, William. Of course you're right that there's a learning curve to any interface, but user feedback for a completely new product is so valuable that it needs to be treated as an opportunity to improve, not to rebut.
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Andrey Savchenko Nov 3
Replying to @earnjam @JJJ and 3 others
maybe you start by designing something that doesn’t *displease* most, if not everyone and the “powerful” bit is insidious in justifying the problems. it didn’t *need* to be powerful. that came from pileup of two separate editor and page builder functions.
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Drew Jaynes Nov 3
Replying to @earnjam @JJJ and 3 others
Care should be taken not to oversimplify the problem in order to give the impression of a simple solution. The Tavern piece pointed out a fault of linear content creation, which is Gutenberg's bread and butter. Image + text is easy. Image wrapped by text: suddenly much harder.
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ʝ³ - Sugar for Xmas 🍭 Nov 3
🙄
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Matt Mullenweg Nov 3
Replying to @Rarst @earnjam and 3 others
I think there are two tough cases: learning from scratch, and re-learning when you may have a strong muscle memory for an old interface. Base WP is very, very bad. 5.0 will be better but we still have a lot of work before it’s great. We’re charting new territory.
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Andrey Savchenko Nov 3
personally there was one moment in time for me when WP got it very right for writing with first DFW. it was on point. I feel that Gutenberg scope & design as an editor were severely compromised by crossing it with a page builder. so I have doubts it’s fixable, but time will tell.
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Wes Linda Nov 3
I wonder if you realize how this looks to someone not in the inner circle. FYI, it's not a good look.
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Gregory Nov 3
Is it still Friday night at your place? I mean... really?
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Eric Karkovack Nov 3
Replying to @photomatt @wptavern
Matt, I'd be interested in your take on this: - Knowing what you now know, would you have done anything differently?
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Tevya Nov 3
I feel like both are right. didn't think to drop the image where he wanted it initially. I wouldn't have either, based on my WP experience. So Gutenberg is more intuitive than our thinking, in this case....
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Tevya Nov 3
...but then the image block can't be dragged into a text block. If you know that, it might prevent you from thinking you can do the 1st. So in that case it's less intuitive. Both are right. Gutenberg is easier/more intuitive... Except when it's not. Still room to improve.
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ʝ³ - Sugar for Xmas 🍭 Nov 3
Replying to @Rarst @photomatt and 4 others
The integration is not bad. It’s always been good, and we’ve squandered the opportunity to make it great. Calling it very-very bad shows a lack of appreciation for everyone that’s built & maintained it until now. Gutenberg is not better yet. Different. Not better.
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Matt Mullenweg Nov 3
Replying to @Rarst @earnjam and 3 others
Have you tried the new full screen DFW mode in G?
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