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the oranckay
THREAD. Some thoughts on how this mess happened. First, I translated Hankyoreh and Chosun editorials for 4 years each, meaning I've given a very close/thorough read of aprox to 10k Korean editorials. Looks like two things went wrong here.
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
And what went wrong here has something to do with how Korean editorials are often written and a serious problem with the translation. I'll start with the problem in the translation. For reference here's the original.
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
Translation says "was reported as saying," but Korean says "...다는 *취지의 발언*을 한 것으로 전해진다," more accurately translated as "is said to have said *something to the effect of*," "reportedly uttered something that *essentially means*," etc. But you can see what's missing
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
Moral of the story #1: Don't trust most translations of a Korean newspaper editorial down to the last word. You can trust the whole essence of it - "Ah, today the Hankyoreh has run an editorial opposing a 'bloody nose' strike" and stop there. Don't fixate on any one little bit.
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
As for the issue of how many Korean editorials are written, first note that in Korean it is quite common (ie, far more than in Eng) to put quotation marks around something that summarizes the gist of what was said. Which by definition means the listener is interpreting things.
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
Only gets worse w words like 취지의 발언 and 전해진다: "said something essentially meaning/gist of which means" and then 전해진다 is barely "reportedly." Is much weaker than "it's been reported." You could say "전해진다" abt local legend that's "been handed down for generations."
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
So Hankoyreh isn't even saying it's seen serious reports Pottinger said such. It's saying "it's being said he said" or "we hear he said." (FWIW entirely possible someone in SK gov't heard something Pottinger said and leaked to Hankyoreh, but they're not standing by source here.)
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Follow Me 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
Hanyoreah is a leftist communit scum journal. Nothing less or more!
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
In other words, Hankyoreh, whatever its faults (particularly w/whoever's working translation dept lately), isn't claiming more than what I could just as fairly "essentially/basically summarize" as "we hear rumor Pottinger said something like ___ and it scares us."
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Follow Me 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
Someone started a petition saying Moon Jae-In sent money to North Korea using Bitcoin. Word is finally out.
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
So, moral of the story #2: When you see a non-Korean (ie, not likely to defend self in K courts) "quoted" in an editorial, ESPECIALLY so roundaboutly like this, check news reports from same paper before you get excited. If Hankyoreh was so sure about this, it'd be in article, too
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Tony Choi 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
Hankyeoreh is still a newspaper with journalistic integrity. They're not citing their source, but it sounds like that they're confident and comfortable saying this. The fact that they were able to point it back specifically at Pottinger is an alarm.
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
In defense of Hankyoreh, I'll say that both at Hankyoreh and Chosun yours truly - THE TRANSLATOR - got editorials CHANGED numerous times (I recall 17 times at Chosun) because as translator I read things even more carefully than editors.
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
At Chosun, people would joke that I was the most powerful man in Korea because if Kim Dae-Jung's people called and wanted something changed, wouldn't happen. If I walked into editorial writers room, they'd say "oh crap, he's here again, stop the presses." YES!
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
(Which was back in the days of printed early street editions, though I'd usually catch before even that went to print.) At Hankyoreh I think I twice found "quotes" attributed to the wrong non-Korean, like Arafat didn't say it his aide did or sumsuch, minor but point stands.
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
So.... do I think Hankyoreh was irresponsible here? Yes. Do I think it's unusual? No. Do I think it's limited to Hankyoreh? No. Saw it at Chosun. Do I think they'd "quote" a Korean official this way? Nope.
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
That said, still think it's within the realm of possibility Hankyoreh did actually hear something, like from a CWD official over drinks, and things got twisted, and they're just dropping hints that they know something (however in/accurate). (And yes, I saw Chosun do same plenty)
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
Moral of the story #3: Never, ever take anything written in a Korean editorial (or for that matter any) as reportage. Hankyoreh isn't "reporting" this. Not even elsewhere at Hankyoreh. Just "we heard Pottinger said something like ____". In an editorial!
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John Lee (The Korean Foreigner) 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
Thank you for this. I was flipping out over this earlier.
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the oranckay 2 Feb 18
Replying to @oranckay
ie, when you see something in a K-editorial and you want to check up on it, start by (1) checking the translation and then (2) check the rest of same publication for, you know, actual news articles and see how compares.
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