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J. Daniel Garcia
Tip of the day. Scripting languages as first programming language for CS bachelors are WRONG. You are not able to write an OS, a DBMS, or even an Office suite with an scripting language.
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Patrick Cable Jun 10
Replying to @jdgarciauc3m
my own experience: starting with c++ and java set me up for frustration and failure. years later, after building working things in scripting languages like perl and ruby was I able to expand into compiled languages without frustration. you have to meet new folks where they are.
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Tim Jun 10
Replying to @jdgarciauc3m
Tell that to google docs :P
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Miguel de Icaza Jun 10
Replying to @jdgarciauc3m
Disagree on the first part, and is not like we need more of the latter, but if we did, making the jump is not a problem
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Tim Jun 10
Replying to @jdgarciauc3m
I don't disagree that a systems language should be taught as part of a CS degree, but it doesn't have to be first, and isn't as required as you think it is.
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Tim Jun 10
Replying to @jdgarciauc3m
But I'm self taught, so what do I know.
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Francisco Lopes Jun 10
Replying to @jdgarciauc3m
You're so wrong. Haskell fits for lambda calculus (CS theory), C fits for operating systems, Assembly fits for bootloaders, Python fits for web and system tooling. All computer science (and C++ doesn't fit any of that).
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Francisco Lopes Jun 10
Replying to @jdgarciauc3m
It's just a matter of tool for the subject, and CS subjects can be so diverse, that one can't simply preclude programming languages like that.
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Real AI Jun 10
Replying to @jdgarciauc3m
you shouldn't try to make any of these things when learning to program I've learned to program using a programmable calculator, no operating systems, no databases and no office suite, just algorithms and data structures
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Real AI Jun 10
does C++ fits anything ?
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Francisco Lopes Jun 10
(quite recreative for CS đŸ˜‰), ... and others, but be careful.
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Real AI Jun 10
I'm used to the hate, I'm studying PLT, now I'll go back to the lambdatheultimate before they come
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Francisco Lopes Jun 10
Haha, no. I didn't mean to be careful with what you said, but to be careful where you look to apply C++.
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Real AI Jun 10
yes, I think we should be careful with both, C++ programmers are usually too religious about it. I only use C++ as last resort.
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Francisco Lopes Jun 10
I agree, even though I'm one (though not a religious one). I must say that Haskell religiosity can be even worse...
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Real AI Jun 10
haskell is just a laboratory for testing new programming languages ideas, but you can use it in production if you wanted religiosity in programming languages is bad, they're tools
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Ignacio Zendejas Jun 11
Replying to @jdgarciauc3m
Dogmatic much? You absolutely can, but that's not the point of a first course. It should teach basic principles and MIT has had great success with python, eg. Programming is just a tool with diverse applications. Teach the tool, let students choose applications.
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AnĂ­bal Rojas (en) Jun 11
I never really got the discussion about the "first programming" language. When I studied, back in the Dark Ages, the professors never used anything different from math or pseudo-code in the blackboards.
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AnĂ­bal Rojas (en) Jun 11
For each course there was a few choices of programming languages that you could pick for building your assignment code. There were some specific tracks, but programming languages were not the spotlight of the career. It was a curriculum heavily influenced on pure math.
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AnĂ­bal Rojas (en) Jun 11
Anyway this kind of discussion should be framed in a bigger context, are we talking about Computer Science, Software Engineering, Bootcamps, ...? The relavance of the programming language by itself would be different depending on the context.
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