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Henrik Joreteg Dec 6
It's dowright amazing how much you can fit into 100k min+gzipped if you start with a minimalist toolkit and you're conscious about size the whole time.
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Jake Archibald Dec 6
Replying to @HenrikJoreteg
Absolute. We got first interaction of down to 15k, and it wasn't particularly hard. I went into that project thinking I'd find some empathy for folks who ship 600k bundles, but I'm more convinced it's just careless.
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Sam Saccone Dec 7
I would like to see how y'all can upstream your process and tooling to the larger community. I think it is unrealistic to expect reaching the sub 100kb bar to be a normal thing for 99% of developers. The only way this will happen is if our frameworks+tools do this by default.
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Jake Archibald
Not that I disagree, but why do you think it's unrealistic to expect the vast majority of developers to care about users in this way?
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Sam Saccone Dec 7
Because the OSS toolchain that people are using today does not care about users this way. This means you have to drop into bespoke build+framework land.
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Jake Archibald Dec 7
That's why we used Webpack & Preact for , not bespoke stuff.
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Benedikt Meurer @WorkerConf 🇦🇹 Dec 7
We are lucky that we can focus on certain details and Google still pays us. Other developers would happily do that too. But reality is that they aren't paid for that.
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Jake Archibald Dec 7
So, what do you think the cause is of 200k+ bundles?
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Benedikt Meurer @WorkerConf 🇦🇹 Dec 7
The majority of application development is making the customer happy, building the product that the customer needs (which is not strictly equally to what the customer claims it needs). Whether or not that includes fast page load time in EM varies (I'd guess it often does not)
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Benedikt Meurer @WorkerConf 🇦🇹 Dec 7
I think the root cause of this is bad defaults and bad tooling. And in between that you gave the problem that app devs aren't paid to fix that for the customers (unless explicitly requested). But as said in the other post, 200k+ per se might not be a problem at all.
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Jake Archibald Dec 7
I wasn't born at Google. I've worked at startups, agencies, big companies with hard deadlines. I always built with performance and accessibility in mind, even if it wasn't explicitly asked for. I want to build a good web.
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Benedikt Meurer @WorkerConf 🇦🇹 Dec 7
There's a diversity of customers and not every application has to load fast everywhere.
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Jake Archibald Dec 7
I don't think we can compete with native if we treat performance as a nice-to-have.
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Jake Archibald Dec 7
It's starting to sound a bit:
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Ville Lahdenvuo Dec 7
Our bundle is just shy of 400k (we're still working on it) but 140k of that is just Angular. Hoping that ivy will make things better. There's also probably some stuff we could eliminate already manually.
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Jake Archibald Dec 7
With we deliberately built a complex JS app, with modern real-world tooling, to show that it can still be fast with relatively low effort. The idea was to avoid it being easily dismissed as some kind of unicorn case, but… I guess not. ☹️
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Jake Archibald Dec 7
If 140k is Angular, Angular has put you in a position where you lose by default. I really hope things improve here. Preact let us hit first-interaction in 8k of JS.
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Rob Palmer Dec 7
I consider it a privilege to be paid to focus on software performance. In many companies, to make fast apps, you must first take on an uncommissioned job of convincing management to value the science of building high-speed software. The tell: CEOs with millisecond-accurate eyes
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Jake Archibald Dec 7
I didn't convince management, I just did it. Then they started to notice the stuff I built "worked better" than projects I didn't work on.
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Rob Palmer Dec 7
Right. It's possible. I too have created artisanal apps with blinding performance. It demonstrates your commitment to your personal values and probably gets you a pat on the back. But let's not confuse that with sustainably changing company/industry practices.
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