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isgoodrum's profile
Ian Goodrum
Ian Goodrum
Ian Goodrum
@isgoodrum

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Ian Goodrum

@isgoodrum

Valiantly upholding the immortal science of Marxism by posting online. @ChinaDaily/@PeoplesWorld/@CatFancy

Beijing
Joined July 2012

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    Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

    Some tweets about China's social credit system, how it isn't actually Black Mirror and how you should stop using facile pop cultural references to demonize countries you haven't bothered to understand.

    5:56 PM - 18 Mar 2018
    • 1,133 Retweets
    • 2,726 Likes
    • mx. playtime ☭ RedBolshevik The Ghost of Marxist Lincoln ✏️🕯️🥭🍙🍻☕👨🏻 Melting-Ice jack 📚 Ryan ☭👁️🐢 Chekhov’s Gun ✍️ Esha K IBJDPCNT643
    48 replies 1,133 retweets 2,726 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        First, some background on why the system exists. In China, a FICO-type system like what the US has wouldn't be very useful, as very few Chinese are debtholders. Most people don't take out loans for major purchases; they save instead.

        6 replies 34 retweets 421 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        Also, and probably more importantly, before the system existed there wasn't a unified set of consequences for businesses who failed to pay fines, uphold agreements or generally hold to acceptable standards of conduct. Unless the offense was criminal, few punishments existed.

        3 replies 23 retweets 294 likes
        Show this thread
      4. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        This context is helpful, but less relevant when it comes to the reporting about the system in the Western press. You've seen the headlines: "Black Mirror is real," "God help us all," etc.

        1 reply 15 retweets 228 likes
        Show this thread
      5. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        So what are the actual consequences for breaking the rules in this system? You can see for yourself: Here's the first list, related to investment and finance. This set of punishments is clearly aimed at high-income defaulters to limit their market activity. Spooooooky!pic.twitter.com/jpCOkuYqf6

        6 replies 36 retweets 367 likes
        Show this thread
      6. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        Some others include taking management positions in State-owned enterprises, becoming a civil servant and joining the CPC. Defaulting on debt or defrauding customers would probably already come up in a routine background check for these positions anyway, but whatever.

        1 reply 17 retweets 229 likes
        Show this thread
      7. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        Here's the big one, the punishment that's grabbing all the headlines: Train and plane tickets. But what does the policy actually say?pic.twitter.com/j2Jo4Wv3K7

        1 reply 26 retweets 220 likes
        Show this thread
      8. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        In other words, if you're on the "bad credit" list, you can't buy first-class plane tickets or luxury train tickets. You also can't engage in "conspicuous consumption" travel or send your kids to expensive private schools. Wow, just like that Netflix show!

        1 reply 46 retweets 433 likes
        Show this thread
      9. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        The most recent communiques on this policy were recently issued, and offer a bit more detail. First, trains:pic.twitter.com/2lxM4erB4h

        1 reply 18 retweets 199 likes
        Show this thread
      10. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        To sum up, the first set of violations is for specific rules related to train travel, like the issuing of fraudulent tickets or scalping. This is a universal ban from ticket purchases. The second list is a broader one, which carries the "high-class" punishments we saw earlier.

        1 reply 17 retweets 219 likes
        Show this thread
      11. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        The broader list includes the things you might expect, like financial deception or fraud, but also includes not paying out social security or employing entities who don't. How terrible that they should be punished with a seat on a C- or D-class bullet train instead of G-class!

        1 reply 19 retweets 226 likes
        Show this thread
      12. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        (A side note: C-class and D-class bullet trains are a little less fast than G-class. They also cost less, because they don't have two tiers of luxury seating. No one I've seen reporting on this has bothered to point out the distinction.)

        1 reply 17 retweets 207 likes
        Show this thread
      13. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        But let's say someone breaks the rules in the first category and wants to get off the blacklist. How would they go about doing so? Here is how.pic.twitter.com/QGV4jnxR3x

        1 reply 16 retweets 170 likes
        Show this thread
      14. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        In short if you're a scalper or a smoker, or otherwise subject to criminal punishment, you're barred from train travel for 180 days. In reality, it's doubtful a person caught smoking once will be put on the list. I imagine repeat offenders will be the only ones punished this way.

        3 replies 14 retweets 187 likes
        Show this thread
      15. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        If you use false documents to buy a ticket, or ride without paying, your punishment is: Paying for your ticket. Downright Orwellian.

        1 reply 26 retweets 296 likes
        Show this thread
      16. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        Planes are a little different. The punishments are stricter, but so are the offenses. Take a look:pic.twitter.com/XClGNsKsXH

        2 replies 14 retweets 165 likes
        Show this thread
      17. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        In this list we've got forcible boarding, fighting on a plane, lighting a fire, doing actual terrorism. These are objectively dangerous things.

        1 reply 12 retweets 186 likes
        Show this thread
      18. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        The list of other offenses from the train travel policy is the same for air travel: financial fraud, social security fraud, non-payment of fines concerning securities. White-collar crimes, in other words.

        1 reply 13 retweets 163 likes
        Show this thread
      19. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        So, the punishments for plane travel are as follows: For violations of the first, specific list, a one-year ban. Remember, that's the "theft or terrorism" list. For the second, general "white-collar" list, the punishment is the same, barring fulfillment of statutory duties.pic.twitter.com/RJPYTPoBZa

        2 replies 14 retweets 153 likes
        Show this thread
      20. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        Why is the "white-collar" list subject to stricter punishment for air travel than train travel? The answer should be obvious: It's easier to flee the country on planes.

        2 replies 17 retweets 208 likes
        Show this thread
      21. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        The scope of the offenses in this policy indicates it's intended for wealthy individuals, as an incentive to get them to pay their debts and fines.

        1 reply 18 retweets 211 likes
        Show this thread
      22. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        Some media outlets have taken a couple local systems and made a weaselly link to national policy. For example, Shanghai has tested out its own version of the system which includes repeat offenses for things like jaywalking. Zhejiang province has done this with garbage sorting.

        1 reply 11 retweets 160 likes
        Show this thread
      23. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        The above examples haven't actually been implemented on a national level, though, and it's unclear whether they ever will. I have my doubts, as the deadline for the credit system to be implemented nationally is 2020 and the clock is ticking.

        1 reply 11 retweets 150 likes
        Show this thread
      24. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        If the central government thought these local schemes were worth including, we'd have seen something about it by now, and we haven't. The link between jaywalking and national credit is, to put it kindly, dubious.

        1 reply 12 retweets 149 likes
        Show this thread
      25. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        At the moment those municipal offenses have a tiny (5 yuan, or roughly 75 cents) fine. That's it. But if you report that and report on the social credit system in the same story, you imply a relationship that isn't really there. It's speculative, and it's irresponsible reporting.

        1 reply 12 retweets 175 likes
        Show this thread
      26. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 18 Mar 2018

        In short: It's not Black Mirror, you dweebs. Watch a new show.

        3 replies 33 retweets 318 likes
        Show this thread
      27. Ian Goodrum‏ @isgoodrum 19 Mar 2018

        Belated credit to @ChinaMedia1 for translating these NDRC documents. Give the site a read, the author is doing great work.https://chinacopyrightandmedia.wordpress.com/ 

        4 replies 14 retweets 200 likes
        Show this thread
      28. End of conversation

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