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Darren Shepherd
At this point you're crazy to think you can manage k8s yourself. I'm sure you've got engineers who want to. It's shiny and fun now, but the novelty wears off quick. And then you are left with an old snowflake.
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Container Cowboy Jul 20
Replying to @ibuildthecloud
The question is, is paying a 3rd party to manage it really much better? I mean technically yes you shouldn’t have to worry about it, but is that really true?
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Darren Shepherd Jul 20
Replying to @cpuguy83
i don't like it, but yes. k8s is too hard to run securely, kept up to date, and manage the ever growing list of "standard" addons.
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Ed Robinson 🇬🇧 Jul 20
Replying to @ibuildthecloud
If you are on one of the big three clouds, at this point you would need a very good reason not to choose the managed service... Even the most immature offering (EKS) is a much better option in almost every way...
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Darren Shepherd Jul 20
Replying to @_errm_
I agree, but I really think AWS made EKS suck just enough so that you might try ECS/Fargate instead.
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Timothy St. Clair Jul 20
Replying to @ibuildthecloud
Perhaps you can attend sig-cluster-lifecycle and help to make it better. There are lots of gr8 ongoing efforts, that do indeed make it much more manageable, and every cycle it gets better.
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Container Cowboy Jul 20
Replying to @dotpem @ibuildthecloud
I’m more thinking that K8s shouldn’t be the interface that we interact with.
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Darren Shepherd Jul 20
Replying to @timothysc
I think it's gotten much worse with each release. More and more options get added, old ways are deprecated (but still there). More functionality is being developed out of the core so now you just need to run more and more k8s manifests (more fun with tolerations).
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Nathan LeClaire Jul 20
I see. Definitely don't disagree there. Depending on who you ask, the two most popular answers seem to be "Userspace on top of the K8s kernel!" (i.e., Helm) or "Serverless! *proceeds to hyperventilate*"
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Darren Shepherd Jul 20
Replying to @cpuguy83 @dotpem
oh absolutely. it's already the case today in almost every major enterprise. You have a team that manages and runs k8s and they don't let anybody touch it. It pretty standard to build some wonky paas like layer where people can just tweak a couple options.
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Darren Shepherd Jul 20
Replying to @dotpem @cpuguy83
Helm: "We took the complexity of k8s yaml and added go contemplating. Now, not only are your manifests long and complex, you can no longer read them"
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Timothy St. Clair Jul 20
Replying to @ibuildthecloud
I believe the community would unanimously disagree with that assertion. Also, I think that statement undercuts a lot of really great work folks have put in, and continue to put in.
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Darren Shepherd Jul 20
Replying to @timothysc
I'm sure everyone disagrees with me. The community answer is basically kubeadm. That's the layer that will fix everything. But I honestly don't see a lot of people using kubeadm in production. I know you'll disagree with that, so maybe I have a self selecting audience.
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Container Cowboy Jul 20
One of the reasons I joined MS is because I find the ACI model interesting.
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Darren Shepherd Jul 20
TIL: you joined MS. Congrats I like what they are doing.
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Matti Paksula Jul 20
what about pharos?
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Darren Shepherd Jul 20
Replying to @mattipaksula @kontena
Don't know a lot about it. But I should probably clarify that "run by yourself" I mean just pick up k8s upstream and have at it. You need to basically buy a product or service, which kontena pharos seems to be.
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Matti Paksula Jul 20
nope, it's fully open source. replaces kubeadm imho. commercial things are just for support.
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Darren Shepherd Jul 20
yeah, same way works. 100% open source. But the open source project only really exists because there is a business model behind it.
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Tim Hockin Jul 20
I don't disagree (that it's not as easy as it might-could be), but I'd live to hear what exactly you'd change to get there?
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