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Alec Resnick
working to start a different kind of university
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Alec Resnick 12 h
Odgovor korisniku/ci @rsnous
So painfully ironic given Scratch’s provenance!
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Alec Resnick 17 h
Odgovor korisniku/ci @nwilliams030
👍🏼 can send you a more specific and useful pointer when I’m back at my computer.
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Alec Resnick 17 h
Odgovor korisniku/ci @nwilliams030
IIRC Zen and the Brain’s bibliography has some good suggestions on what the baseline is, and its methods may be of interest regardless!
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Alec Resnick 1. velj
Odgovor korisniku/ci @zedshaw
Thanks a bunch! 🙏🏼
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Alec Resnick 1. velj
Odgovor korisniku/ci @zedshaw
I find this thread fascinating! Thank you! Do you have suggestions as to where I might go to read more about this perspective?
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
Same! 🙏🏼
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
But I think still an evocative and important straw man! Even if Papert didn’t erect it, plenty of others have— I’ll never begrudge someone pushing someone “in education” to demonstrate that there’s a there there 😋
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
Agreed. I am grateful that Papert framed his work in terms of learning because otherwise I may never have found and come to care about it. But I despair of the community that framing has led to around what—to me—are still entirely nascent ideas and perspectives.
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
That we can agree on! 😋 I hope it’s clear that I deeply agree with and appreciate that point about use and expertise (hence the Mindstorms screenshots included upthread). I think it’s a lovely and essential point.
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
I think that’s a lovely evaluation. To bring it back to Logo: I suspect (though now I am encouraged to actually go estimate this), that Logo’s development qua DG probably didn’t see as much directed R&D time as that text and framework.
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
I thought it might be a useful analogy insofar as it represents an approach, notation, and perspective which has seen very little uptake, but I think one would be hard pressed to describe it as without technical merit. It clearly *could* be the kernel of a tradition IMO.
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
haha, I’ll drop this point then. I just think Logo 50y out is closer to Mendel 50y out than many of its proponents would like to admit.
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
Mathematica very explicitly built on top of a vast history of mathematical notation and development, extending and developing that notation. CAS has been an active field for nearly thirty years when its develolment began.
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
But you must recognize the difference, from an intellectual history POV, of where Mathematica sat in its development v. Logo?
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
Numbers like “50y out” are only fair insofar as those years represent failed mathematical development. e.g. a back of the envelope estimate of the curve of PhD+-hours of time developing Mathematica and Logo comparatively would be a valuable one to sketch in this context.
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
I think that’s right! I guess I have some sympathy, given that Papert explicitly called out so many of these issues and caveats in Mindstorms. e.g.
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
* _but_, any attachment…
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
Sorry, was speaking loosely. I meant it in that sense, of expertise.
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
I just think that given the small numbers and unique contexts and communities we’re talking about, more careful and anthropological/ethnographic perspectives, if you will, should inform these kinds of judgments.
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Alec Resnick 30. sij
Odgovor korisniku/ci @michael_nielsen @andy_matuschak
I deeply agree! I think it is such a shame that the communities who think about thinking and the communities who think about doing share so little overlap!
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