|
@analogist_net | |||||
|
Correction: @BrianRoemmele linked the image from lecture at youtu.be/O6FUMnCVM3k. The image is in a slide from a Matsuzawa talk. I retract point (1) here.
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Brian Roemmele
@BrianRoemmele
|
5. sij |
|
Consider: millions of years ago our antecedents gave a massive sacrifice of their left hemisphere.
We lost a tremendous amount of short term memory and replaced it with Broca’s, Wernicke & the phonological loop.
But why?
So we can—talk.
Thus chimpanzees can do this—we can’t: pic.twitter.com/CDznxg37p1
|
||
|
|
||
|
Brad Wyble
@bradpwyble
|
5. sij |
|
It's a practice effect though. It turns out that people do even better than monkeys given similar training.
doi.org/10.3758/PBR.17…
|
||
|
|
||
|
Brian Roemmele
@BrianRoemmele
|
5. sij |
|
Brad, that paper was discredited by 30 years of research at this university.
Here are some of the 1000s of studies—with “trained” humans.
langint.pri.kyoto-u.ac.jp/ai/index.html
|
||
|
|
||
|
Jonathan Pillow
@jpillowtime
|
5. sij |
|
Thanks Brian, but can you point to a specific paper that contradicts the Cook & Wilson 2010 result? The list you posted includes papers about tool use, bottlenose dolphins and horses in mongolia, but not obvious which are relevant to chimps vs. humans for this task. Thanks!
|
||
|
|
||
|
Brian Roemmele
@BrianRoemmele
|
6. sij |
|
Jonathan, thanks for asking. I think the researcher Tetsuro Matsuzawa, PhD, Distinguished Professor, Kyoto University Institute for Advanced Study, has some of this in english, quite a bit is in Japanese. I am very certain the professor would love to address your questions.
|
||
|
|
||
|
Brian Roemmele
@BrianRoemmele
|
6. sij |
|
The contact page for the professor:
matsuzawa.kyoto/cv/en/
|
||
|
|
||
|
Brad Wyble
@bradpwyble
|
6. sij |
|
Thanks Brian. I've been in contact with Tetsuro through email about this and he wasn't able to answer our questions to my satisfaction (he said that for the chimps "no training is needed", which can't be true). If anyone has better luck, I'd like to hear it.
|
||
|
|
||
|
Jonathan Pillow
@jpillowtime
|
6. sij |
|
Likewise—thanks for the contact info, @BrianRoemmele. However, your tweet said the 2010 study had been "discredited", which is a pretty strong statement. For such a claim it would be nice to be able to point to a specific reference, if you have one.
|
||
|
|
||
|
James Wu
@analogist_net
|
6. sij |
|
I’m much more worried that
1) Matsuzawa 2013 did NOT have this figure, but @BrianRoemmele cites it as such. As far as I can tell it’s not by Matsuzawa
2) Matsuzawa 2013 does not at all advance a Wernicke/Broca replacement theory, but a prefrontal WM development discussion pic.twitter.com/Vy5TxM4fo4
|
||
|
|
||