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Marijn "i before j" van Putten
Historical Linguist; Working on Quranic Arabic and the linguistic history of Arabic and Berber . Game designer
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 6h
Replying to @bareem11 @Safaitic
Primarily the meaning "to be clear" is contrived. I would not think it entirely outside of the realm of possibility that yaʿrubu in the meaning "to be an Arab" is a natural meaning, but there too, it seems obviously denominal from the Ethnonym ʿarab.
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 6h
Replying to @bareem11 @Safaitic
ʾaʿjam is used in that manner to denote *the other*, that really makes a big difference. And to be clear,ʾaʿjam is not primarily an ethnonym. It is "whoever we can't understand", similar to Greek barbaros.
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 7h
Replying to @bareem11 @Safaitic
It's normally the other-way around. German deutlich "clear" is derived from the root deut- "people" whence also their ethnonym deutsch "german". This is the natural direction of semantic development. Not the other way around.
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 7h
Replying to @bareem11 @Safaitic
Good luck proving that. But it's an absurd verb to have, and an even more absurd verb to base your ethnonym on.
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 7h
Replying to @bareem11 @Safaitic
The verb ʿaruba/yaʿrubu in the meaning 'to be clear of speech' is evidently a post-hoc invention of the lexicographers in an attempt to establish the doctrine that the Arabic language is the most clear and most eloquent language in the universe.
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 11h
I guess you haven't met the same colleagues with blank stares even when I used the term Berber. :-)
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 13h
Latin is of course a good source for F from Bh. But it seems difficult to arrive there without special pleading, yes.
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 13h
Replying to @LenMariken
LOL. I can't figure out what the English was supposed to say.
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 13h
Whether he was disingenuous or made a (rather bizarre) mistake, I don't know. In modern Arabic dialects gender/number agreement works pretty differently from Classical Arabic/Quranic Arabic. It's perhaps not that odd to make this mistake, despite being an Arab.
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten retweeted
Ayn Randy Aug 7
American dog: *pants* British dog: *trousers*
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 14h
If I were to guess, probably from Baghdad. I believe already in the 10th century there are reports of pronouncing the rāʾ as ġayn in Baghdad. Back then it seems to have been a universal feature, not specific to Jews/Christians.
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 14h
The same is true for Jewish Tripoli Arabic in Libya!
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 14h
Christian and Jewish Baghdadi most prominently. But I believe it's a more general think in the mosul area?
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 14h
All this being said: there is a clear shift towards calling Berber languages Amazigh, and more and more people are starting to use the latter term in publication. I expect that in a decade or so, we will look back kind of confused that we used Berber less than a decade ago.
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 14h
Then there's the issue (in my opinion) that there is no obvious native English pronunciation of the word Amazigh, and it's hard to stop yourself pedantically from pronouncing it in a more native way, which will only add to the confusion.
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 14h
These are all minor issues, I do basically agree. But sticking to Amazigh does come with a cost. If I want to explain to, even my fellow colleagues, that I study Amazigh languages *nobody* will know what I'm talking about, while if I say Berber, they might.
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 14h
Berber/Amazigh is tricky. Amazigh is not the native ethnonym for the majority of Berber speakers, and in certain environments it's genuinely confusing. Likewise always sticking to the ethnonym and/or language name will leave you with multiple identical language names.
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 15h
What is a zay makrukh? :D
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 15h
More info here. I do wonder why the Hidāyat al-Qāriʾ would fail to mention that though... Could it be that this was not a universal thing?
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Marijn "i before j" van Putten 15h
It is!
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