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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
20. The folks working on Visual Programming Languages, Low Code, or No Code, to try to make programming more accessible to people are... I dunno, focused on not the best goal.. Rather than make it easier to do what you can do with JS, better goal is to make a better excel.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
21. Eve started in the right direction: combine the database, a UI for human I/O, and a nice declarative language showed lots of promise @ 1st you could tell they went off the rails when the demo was how to build Flappy Bird.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
22. 10.7 Million Javascript developers (most popular " programming language") 500-750 Million people use Excel (actual most popular programming language + env) Why? Excel lets you treat you thoughts as data. Easy to get started, can ALWAYS upskill to solve harder problems
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
23. Weaknesses of Excel Really only works for quantitative thoughts But there are all sorts of relationships between qualitative thoughts, and algorithms you can run on them We need a programming language for meta-cognition, + db + io ideas here
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
24. Advances in programming languages reduce incidental complexity -- the complexity of talking with machines that doesn't relate to problems you're trying to solve. Big advances: garbage collection/not having to worry about memory management, performant immutable datastructures
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
25. Big ideas that shape whole languages have made their way into Clojure through libraries The paper Communicating Sequential Processes inspired the creation of Golang (Go) -- very popular at google. In Clojure, core.async library gives you all that!
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
26. Bret Victor is right about direct manipulation generally. Specifically: CSS is a flaming pile of garbage. Messing with margins and padding to try to get a layout to look the way you want is 100% incidental complexity.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
27. Just parroting his quote from above talk "So much of creativity is discovery, and you can't discover anything if you can't see what you're doing" Similarly, programming languages should not only be conceived of as text or symbol based see
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
28. Getting beyond abstract symbols does not mean getting beyond abstract ideas. The power of programming languages (and why you may want to learn them, even if not intent on building software) is that they let you get you hands dirty with building and using ur own abstractions.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
29. Cheating and linking an old thread
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢
30. Datalog is a much better query language than SQL, and will be more widely used than SQL in 2050 But might be only if you count people using natural language datalog, which will go mainstream in next 10 years
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
31. Urbit is an interesting project, but won't actually take off unless/until someone writes an X -> Hoon or X -> Arvo or X -> "whatever" compiler because no one actually wants to think in Yarvis' pig latin.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
32. Hosted languages that provide nicer abstractions over the libraries from their host language have a huge huge advantage over new languages starting from scratch. The ability to work with libraries from an existing/broader ecosystem is damn near table stakes for a new lang
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
33. The world is a worse place because MIT switched from teaching LISP in the intro CS courses to teaching Python.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
34. If you haven't learned a programming language for a reason other than A) It was a assigned to you in school B) You thought it would make you money Then I doubt your a) curiosity b) open-mindedness and as a result c) competency as a engineer
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
35. There are two problems for programming languages to solve 1) Performance on machines 2) Usefulness as a tool for thought Right now those are complected -- Intentional Software was doing something interesting toward separating those two out
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
36. **Technical people** are just people who "try to understand" Killing conversations with "I'm not technical" is a dangerous practice that will hurt you (and those around you) in the long run.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
37. Your type system won't save you
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
38. Provably correct doesn't mean it works
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
39. Contracts and gradual typing > strong types
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @vgr
40. Many people with 10 years of experience in software engineering haven't actually grown or learned much in that time. They've done the same first year 10 times on repeat. Polyglots generally avoid falling into this pattern.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
41. Reagent (A Clojurescript wrapper around React) is way easier to read, write, and maintain than vanilla react.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
42. Dan Abramov has said that Redux is not a javascript clone of Re-frame (the CLJS framework for writing SPAs in react), it is just that both were inspired by elm and arrived at similar pattern... But even so... Re-frame was first and still much better in almost every way
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
43. The Re-frame documentation is most informative/entertaining read-me on github
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
44. Clojurescript is an EXCELLENT choice for consumer or SaaS internet startups. If you are starting a new company and can afford it, you should spend invest a few months in learning it first and building in it vs your normal stack, will pay huge dividends over time.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
45. A great engineer can learn Clojure well enough to be productive in under a month.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
46. Setup for react development (Webpack/Babel/100 other tooling things) was a dumpster fire in 2015. It's probably still bad.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
47. Create-React-App and Gatsbyjs probably have made setup for Javascript projects much better. Still probably not as easy to use or as powerful as shadow-cljs.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
48. Typescript is mostly hype.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
49. VScode is a typescript IDE, is probably pretty magical, and I am likely missing some cool sources of tools for thought inspiration by not playing in that ecosystem.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
50. Airtable is on track to be the Wordpress of relational databases.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
51. Graph databases are far better than relational databases for most things.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
52. Amendment to 4. No one who is loud about OO is doing real OO. Agree Erlang is OO
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
53. In general, folks thinking about programming languages and computing more broadly, don't know enough history. Folks interested in the topic should read "The Dream Machine" to start and not blindly trust shitposters like me. VN def over-hyped tho
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
54. One reason to know history is so you can see what elements of your language were put in place to deal with constraints in your environment that no longer exist We don't use punch-cards, we don't need a distinction between expressions and statements
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
55. Questions are not a sign of ignorance, they are a sign you are paying attention. It's more than OK to ask people to define terms or give a concrete example, and ok to stay in conversations you can barely understand. Applies to conversations in and about all languages.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
55. Meta opinion about my opinions on programming languages
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
56. Datomic is far and away the best graph database available today. Has Java and Clojure APIs, non jvm languages can use rest apis. If you're a startup, worth being in Clojure though.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
57. Listen, I'm not saying he didn't have massive contributions, esp on the math side. Just know too many AI bros (who I still love) who've said things like "We just need 50 Von Neumanns to build an AGI god and we're set" No. And he's not all that.
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
58. The most important idea in Datomic is that there is no reason to overwrite data just because it changes. It is more than a graph database, it is a graph database with a notion of time and history built in. What was Joe's address as of Dec 2017?
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Conor White-Sullivan🧢 15. pro
Odgovor korisniku/ci @Conaw
59. The main limitation of the EAV tuples (popular in Semantic Web land) is that you can't easily describe the relationships. You get the FACTS, but it is a bit tricky to add information to those facts like "where did this info come from", or make statements like If A then B
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