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@AdamRackis | |||||
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“Engine diversity absolutists” ?
This is extremely concerning rhetoric from the Chrome head of standards, especially given the topic of this thread, the potential abuse of Chrome’s market power.
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Alex Russell
@slightlylate
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25. sij |
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Modern JS evolution has been a disaster -- and I say that as someone who has pushed the boulder up the hill as much as anyone. We introduced the stages model after some of the worst, but still not on productive footing.
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Adam Rackis
@AdamRackis
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25. sij |
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Can you explain more why modern JS evolution has been a disaster? Decorators have gone ... poorly. I understand some bad actors (I've heard rumors possibly at Google) have at times torpedoed it with bad intent.
But other than that ... I see a huge success. Where do you differ?
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Alex Russell
@slightlylate
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25. sij |
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I see the full balance sheet (which you don't) of time invested for progress delivered. TC39 is bad value.
Decorators. Promises. Cancellation. Classes. Intrinsic subclassing. Decorators. Many, many aspects of modules. All many, many years late...and we aren't even to types yet.
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Adam Rackis
@AdamRackis
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25. sij |
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Years late? By whose schedule? Those features had *many* competing visions, and achieving consensus was fucking hard. But most got done, with outstanding results.
I'm most sympathetic to Promise cancellation. The ideologues surrounding anything Promise-related are the *worst*
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Mike Sherov (he/him) 🚀
@mikesherov
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25. sij |
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It's unfortunate because this is all opinion, but I can't help but agree with Alex that the rate of change of JS to adopt completely needed features like Observables, Promise Cancellation, decorators, static/private/ class fields has been slow compared to other langs.
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Mike Sherov (he/him) 🚀
@mikesherov
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25. sij |
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And when you look at it, everyone on TC39 is trying their best and doing a great job, and we do have progress, but as a procedure wonk I can't help but blame the need for *complete consensus* for the pace of change in the language.
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Kevin Kamimura
@Kevin_Kamimura
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25. sij |
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Don’t break the web, that is the number one goal. So it is not fair nor accurate to compare Web/JS with other platforms and languages. Few have as much responsibility and reach, and such any change needs to be thoroughly thought through.
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Rick Byers
@RickByers
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26. sij |
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Actually my #1 goal is to slow/stop the web's slide into irrelevance. Broken things can be fixed. Irrelevant things are rarely reserected!
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Kevin Kamimura
@Kevin_Kamimura
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26. sij |
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Irrelevance for whom? Maybe not being able to use the web as a tool, to compete with native platforms makes it irrelevant for Google, but Google doesn’t speaks for everyone. Without engine diversity the web is no longer open, and that is its largest appeal over native.
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Alex Russell
@slightlylate
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26. sij |
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Engine diversity absolutists need to describe what concrete benefits it provides that can't be achieved other ways in the medium-term (e.g., OSS forking, which has created huge divergence in the KHTML-lineage engines)
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Anthony Ramine
@nokusu
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26. sij |
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Alex Russell is a toxic gatekeeper that should probably not have the decision power he has.
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Adam Rackis
@AdamRackis
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26. sij |
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“Toxic” is too strong imo, but I’m increasingly thinking someone else at Google should be making these decisions.
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Tomasz Łakomy
@tlakomy
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26. sij |
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Whoever will screenshot this thread, please include me too
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Jussi Kalliokoski
@quinnirill
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26. sij |
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Chrome head of standards doesn’t seem to hold standards in such high a regard 🤷♀️
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🇪🇺OMLT🇪🇺
@OmeletteDePoulp
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26. sij |
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You're absolutely right and as a simple user, this is absolutely disgusting behaviour from the Chrome team.
No amount of damage control can correct this kind of toxic behaviour.
Thanks, I'm just going to donate to the EFF and Mozilla. Prick.
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major country
@handsoffeverywh
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26. sij |
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You don't want Google to control every aspect of the software you interact with?
Stop being such a SJW!!!!
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